Interview with Brown/RISD Dual Degree Student and Fashion Designer Zoe Goldemberg

We were huddled side-by-side in a large, carpeted room on the second floor of RISD’s main dining hall, The Met. Last semester, all of us Dual Degree first-years were called for a general meeting led by our  upperclassmen advisors as part of our ongoing orientation preceding the commencement of studio classes. I ran my fingers across the textured carpeting and clutched a bag of popcorn as I admired the ring of talented artists before me: 14 students who I’d undertake this journey alongside, the hazy light from the windows gliding onto our faces hungry for advice, for understanding. In the Brown/RISD Dual Degree (BRDD) Program, a batch of 15 students simultaneously work toward a B.F.A. at RISD and either an A.B. or Sc.B. at Brown, a task can feel daunting and intense at times. After talking through our anxieties about our prospective Dual Degree experiences in small groups, we transitioned into the more thrilling portion of the afternoon: the exhilarating BRDD Art Share.

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We showed each other artwork that we had completed in high school—mainly pieces part of our RISD portfolio submissions—to understand more about each other and get a sense of what themes, media, and processes we’ve explored in our personal practices thus far. During the orientation with our tiny cohort, I met one of my 14 peers, Zoe Goldemberg. I had, coincidentally, known a little about her and her work before getting my acceptance letter: she was a 2022 YoungArts Finalist in Design Arts and I had seen some of her fashion on the YoungArts Catalogue. By the force of the universe, I would end up in the same program as her and become friends over the course of our first semester. In the Art Share, I was amazed by Zoe’s apparel and her design process.

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Though I have seen and learned about Zoe’s work during the past few months, I wanted to pick at her deeply innovative mind through an interview. Here is how our conversation unfolded: 

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S: A vast majority of your work takes rooting and aesthetic direction from your home city of Miami, its topology, biodiversity, and urban character. What is particularly intriguing to you about the city and what do you hope to communicate about it through fashion?

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Z: I think that I didn’t really realize that all of my work was rooted in Miami until I started taking an outside look onto my body of work. But more than just its geographical location, I was more interested in where do we come from, and how does where we come from affect the rest of our lives. I look back on how my parents aren’t from Miami… I’m not even from Miami… I wasn’t born there and I don’t live there now, but it’s a big factor in the way that I was raised and my surroundings and my extended environment that has subliminally influenced every ounce of my life. Once I came to appreciate the biodiversity found in it being both a city and extremely tropical environment, I was able to come into tune with it, and use Miami as a source of inspiration. I think about my daily interactions… like the shadows of palm trees turned into sources of inspiration, or the little creatures that I’d see on my daily walks all were taken in and have been able to influence my art and design.

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S: Your pieces generate a dynamic balance between technical skill, material exploration, and conceptual imagination. When you start the ideation process, to what extent does any metaphorical, poetic, or philosophical inspiration influence you?

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Z: For me, I’m extremely tied to my sketchbooks. I see my sketchbook as this extension of my brain and hands and mind, and it’s a place where I can absolutely roam free with my thoughts. So, before I begin my projects, I’ll scatter infinite ideas and marks onto there, and that’s where I am able to draw inspiration from. In terms of actually making the work, I’m not really a big planner. Even though I do sketch, once I’m in it with the work, I usually feel for the next move and what I’m gonna do next. When that pertains to fashion work, I’m not very concerned with measurements or sizing or who is wearing this… Is it a woman or is it a guy, who cares? It’s more about how I can create shapes that are expanding, protruding, and, more than anything, making the body beautiful. So, it’s less on a technical perspective and more on a physical exploration of material, shape, and form. In terms of material, that’s a concept that I’m always trying to experiment in my work. I’m studying Materials Engineering at Brown, so it’s a topic that’s very interesting to me in terms of how do we interact with materials and what are new ways of implementing materials within the fashion world, whether that’s technologically with 3-D printing or laser printing or even in ways that aren't always apparent such as using sustainably-sourced materials or never buying materials, which is something I try to do.

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S: How does your concentration at Brown supplement your view of apparel design? How do you think your time in the Dual Degree will change the aesthetics of your clothing and designs? What excites you about Materials Engineering?

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Z: I’ve been doing fashion design for a long time, so a degree at Brown, in my mind, was something that would enhance my fashion design rather than vice versa, which is maybe not always how that’s thought of. I just definitely knew that I always wanted to do something in the world of fashion design, or works on the body, so studying Materials Engineering is exciting because it’s allowing me to place a technical view of my work in terms of how things work… How does the world work? How do materials work? How can I make materials? I want to gain this vast knowledge of materials in order to use them with more care in my work, to have a more well-rounded view of the actual, physical qualities of my work. I do think that so far I’ve been able to really gather the more research-based focus that is Brown and carry that insight into my future work at RISD.

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S: How did your experiences in high school prepare you to enter the world of design, and specifically a community of artists and apparel designers?

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Z: I think I was extremely privileged to be able to go to an arts high school. I went to a design and architecture public high school in Miami, where the people that went there truly wanted to go there, like people who were traveling 3 hours to get to school in the morning… It was an environment that was extremely inspiring. One thing that it made me realize was that I had grown up with this conviction of making things myself, finding opportunities for myself, do-it-yourself, DIY… As soon as I entered this environment in high school and was surrounded by peers who had the same interests but also were very motivated and driven individuals, I began to recoil from the term “DIY” and instead realized that DIY is the art of collaboration. I could spend all night on a piece of art, but there was nothing more invigorating than seeing my classmates’ work in the mornings in fashion class. So… realizing that the school you attend and the teachers you have aren’t as important as the people you’re surrounded by. Great work can come from any environment as long as you’re around driven people who you’re inspired by constantly.

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S: What fashion designers, to you, produce the most striking and excellent apparel?

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Z: I would say the most obvious answer, first, is Iris van Herpen. It has become a very general answer, but she’s someone who I’ve admired since a very young age, and to me she’s the most incredible fashion designer in the sense that she really collaborates. My favorite design piece is the “Skeleton” Dress by Iris van Herpen, a work that she collaborated on with various other architects, designers, and engineers, and being able to gather expertise from various different fields in order to ultimately come up with this incredible, ground-breaking work that reveals the exoskeleton of the human body. Drawing deeper from that, I’ve been gathering a lot of inspiration from Neri Oxman, who is a biologist at MIT that’s now sprung into the world of materials science as well as biomimicry, or gathering inspiration from a biological environment, which is my greatest interest. One more designer is Hussein Chalayan, who basically works in the realm of transformation, like being able to carry a work of art that’s wearable on the human body and how that structure can be transformed and transmuted and translated into different realms. He’s someone who’s worked very closely with Iris van Herpen, and these people are really just models that I aspire to create work as amazing as them and also work with them in the future.

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S: Looking at some of your designs, there are large, organic pieces that look smooth and geometrically complex, laid over necks and faces as masks or, potentially, sculptural decoration. You have used 3D printing and laser printing in the past. What do you think this adds to your practice? What doors does this open for you in terms of problem solving?

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Z: One of the most recent things that I've been doing within my design work and something that I did for my senior collection in high school was taking forms that I had modeled digitally and basically think about it as this generative design mechanism. I would start with a cube, essentially, in Maya [a 3D computer graphics application] and extrude faces to reiterate, creating iterations over and over and over, and then taking those collaged ideas that exist within my sketchbook and translating them into a physical, substantial environment. On Maya, I would be modeling and taking forms and translating them, and maybe putting an axis on them and seeing what happens. Then, once I’ve created a final form that I like, what I've been doing is putting in the human body, digitally, and then modeling around it and envisioning what my pieces might look like in relation to the human system. I think that that’s been something that’s very interesting to me because it takes inspiration from a lot of designers like Iris van Herpen, who I’m so awestruck by, and carries those ideas into practice. And so that’s one main thing that I’m doing that I’m very passionate about right now.

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S: You describe on your website a “constant feedback loop” you undertake between digital modeling and printing, and then incorporation of “aggregat[ing] by hand” to finish. How did you come to this style of working? When did you realize your fascination with working with technology and materials that deviate from simple fabrics?

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Z: I guess I was in a realm that was pretty privileged in the sense of having access to these digital modeling tools and digital environments, like working in collaboration with local universities in Miami, where I was able to gain access to their 3-D printing labs, for example. Once I was able to learn some digital modeling sites… the main one that I would use would be Maya… and modeling on Maya is extremely organic but there’s nothing as organic as the physical act of aggregating, of creating. Sometimes, I’d realize that drawing on the computer wasn’t enough and having to print out what I was working on, and maybe sketch on top of that… That can allow for a very eye-opening experience because sometimes being stricken to a computer can completely skew and tunnel the work that one makes. Just taking a breather from that and coming back to an intended vision, I feel is very important and can ultimately influence the work that I make.

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S: Does the figure pose a limitation for fabrication or does it lead to exciting exploration?

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Z: I think that the figure, whoever it might be, is something that enhances a body of work. No matter what I make, I’m always wondering what it would look like on the human body… How can I interact with it? The body is such a miraculous motion of limbs and feeling and wonder that clothing that is worn on top or structures that are placed among that, can only enhance and bring about new ideas and new explorations enough to where I would never see it as limiting. It’s only limiting in terms of technicalities, like if I were to focus on measurement and how something is fitting. But those standards of measurement are not important in the long run. They’re things that are brought on by trend and fad and by what is populated in mass media, rather than an actual exploration of form and body, and how can this line translate to this. I like to think beyond the stagnant figure. 

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S: Do you think fashion has a social and/or ethical responsibility?

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Z: The way that I view fashion is a little skewed in the sense that I believe strongly that fashion is the architecture of the human body. Just as architects use sites and plans to influence their work, I view the human body as my site and the site from which I work from. I do think that fashion is an extremely problematic field. It’s the second biggest polluting industry in the world, and there’s an infinite amount of issues that come with it… and I’m extremely aware of my role in that environment and trying to navigate what’s right, what’s wrong? What’s sustainable, what’s not?... and how am I positively impacting the field that I’m entering. But more than anything, I plan to use fashion in a sense of creating an in-depth analysis of the human body, of forms, of lines, and what that entails. The fact that that pertains to the fashion field is something that I’m still reconciling with, trying to figure out where my role plays in that.

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S: In addition to fashion, what other disciplines of art do you enjoy? How did you get into art and design, and before you began heading into an apparel design direction, what did you make?

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Z: I guess I’m influenced, more than anything, by architecture. I’m grateful to have gained this sensibility for design through my parents and grandparents, who are architects. I think that the vast majority of my work takes inspiration from the way that structures are created on that larger scale. My grandparents were architects in Argentina, and going there and seeing the facades that climbed the churches and libraries, I can’t help but take inspiration from those things knowing that that’s what my predecessors saw. And their structures that they made are ultimately a call for how I can make using the site, which I claim as the human body. In terms of fashion, I learned to sew when I was very young, at seven, and I was always wondering how I can make the clothing I was wearing better, I figured the best way would be making it on my own. Fashion was something that I found very early on and I’m grateful to have stuck through, and I developed that notion through other realms of design such as architecture, which is always this longstanding inspiration for me.

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S: What makes a great fashion brand?

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Z: On a very plain scale, a good fashion brand can definitely be defined by the morals of that company and that brand. One example would be Neri Oxman’s brand, where she has structured herself on very ground-breaking science technology and innovation, while also wanting to collaborate with others who are doing the same, wanting to collaborate with materials engineers, architects, designers, biologists, computer scientists, etc. That’s one aspect of the morality of bringing together a great team, versus brands that are very set-in-stone like Adidas, who can be known for being a very sporty brand but within it contains extremely high morals as a company in terms of how they operate on such a global basis and sustainability as well. I think the morality of teamwork can make a good brand.

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S: Do you enjoy thinking about or working on the supplementary aspects of fashion design, such as runway design, hair and makeup, etc.? How much importance do you place on that? How does that influence the presentation or the clothing itself?

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Z: I guess it’s something that I don’t always really think about just because I don’t know if that’s where my work will always lead, but I do know that I love to create the plan for my piece. I love to sketch. I love just whimsically throwing around ideas. That’s my favorite part of designing. My least favorite part is probably sewing because it can be very technical and it's something that I can do and it can be very relaxing at times, but ultimately the moment when the whole piece comes together on the model… like that’s an incredible, awe-inspiring moment, just seeing everything come together. And then being able to collaborate with people who can then photograph my work, especially being here at RISD… having friends who I know are amazing photographers, and being able to take myself out of the lens and out of what I had just created. I used to always want to take my own pictures and do everything myself, but being able to step out of that lens and invite others to analyze what I’ve made has allowed for very fruitful results that I’m excited to try to experiment more with in the future.

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S: What is your view of the similarity between words like “fashioning” something and “engineering” something? How do you compare and contrast those terms and how do you go about thinking about them?

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Z: When I think of “fashioning something” as a term I think about more of creating something on the fly… without thinking about it too much. “Engineering,” to me, is about thinking and asking questions about the world, like finding solutions to problems, and thinking about: why do we need these solutions? Who needs these solutions? I think “engineering” something versus “fashioning” something is really thinking about creating in a more well-rounded manner, thinking about all aspects of a problem rather than just creating something that might not be long-lasting, which is a reflection of the fashion industry in terms of fast-fashion versus slow-fashion. How can we think of long-term solutions?

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S: What silhouettes excite you in fashion and by what philosophy do you adorn the body?

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Z: I guess my philosophy would be that fashion is the architecture of the human body. That’s something that I’m absolutely stricken by. Just using fashion as a sort of scaffolding that envelops the human body and aggregates to it, rather than takes away or inhibits or frustrates. Something that exists with the human body as a site. In terms of silhouettes, I have been playing around a lot, taking inspiration from my Argentinian culture, from protrusions using extraneous materials, and playing around with how fashion can take up more space.

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S: Can you talk me through one of your projects that you think represents your peak problem-solving or contains everything you want in a good design, where it emanates design excellence in your eyes?

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Z: That’s definitely my “Medusozoa” chair. It was a collaboration with an Italian chair company Kartell, where they commissioned me to create a chair intervention for Philippe Starck’s AI Chair. It was a collaboration between me, Kartell, and the store that it was being shown at, Showfields. This took months of modeling, months of printing out all the pieces—some prints that took 13 days, some prints that would take 2 hours. This is where I came to really understand what design engineering means, because it’s not just how things work and their design. Design engineering is sitting down with your 3-D printed pieces and sanding each and every one of them down and spray-painting them and figuring out how to make something look just as you’d like it to. And this came with problems—it came with printing 20 pieces at once at 4:00 a.m., it came with all types of struggles—but in the end, the way everything came together is just the most, to me, an accurate representation of the environment that I was trying to portray, an exact biomimetic representation of my Miami fluid environment. It’s the thing that I’m most proud of. It took the most time. I’m extremely proud of those collaborations and having my work shown in such proximity to a designer like Philippe Starck, who is absolutely incredible.

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S: So far, has being enrolled in the Dual Degree Program changed your view of design? What have you learned that stuck with you so far?

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Z: I guess a main thing coming to RISD was that I never realized that there was such a divide between fine arts and design… especially here I feel like that’s a big thing. Just as at Brown there’s a divide between the humanities and STEM, at RISD the same divide can be seen between design arts as well as fine arts. I think that this is the assumed patterns of nature in society, of splitting into these opposed scenarios or environments. I guess that that’s one thing that I never really focused on, because I feel like design itself is such a broad thing and contains so much in it. It’s finding beauty within shape, finding beauty within form, but then also finding purpose to those things. Being surrounded by people who are so passionate about finding beauty within things that might be fine arts, that might stay within that realm, as well as others who are interested in design as this problem-solving idea that can go beyond. In terms of the Dual Degree, it was something that would examine my studies at RISD and enhance those studies in fashion design. But, I’ve come to notice that for others that it’s about doing something you’re passionate about and doing something that is a studious, academic thing. And so being able to, yes, use engineering to aid my fashion design, but also finding distinctions between the two and ways to reconcile with both, and ultimately bring them together to further understand my scope of study and research.

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S: What do you think the future of fashion holds? What direction do you want fashion to go down?

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Z: I honestly have no idea because I don’t like where fashion is right now. I’m someone that has so many problems with the fashion industry in terms of like… even consuming… to the extent of… sometimes I don’t see the point in consuming… new fashion? That’s why I’ve really been trying to figure out what my role is in that and how can I possibly engineer new ways of thinking about fashion. Does my work live on a consumer basis, or does it just exist as structures in the world? Just thinking about… who wears what I make and does that matter?

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Check out Zoe’s work here: http://www.zoegoldemberg.com/.

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